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Post by fjb1888 on Aug 13, 2016 10:00:38 GMT
PALESTINIAN FLAGS – BETWEEN A ROCK & A HARD PLACE
On Wednesday night, Celtic will play an Israeli team, some people will fly the flag of Palestine and Celtic will almost certainly get fined. The consequences and subsequent impact are down to conjecture and perspective.
Palestine is recognised by 139 countries, has greater “state” recognition by UN & EU than Scotland does, is a member of FIFA and the IOC. Despite this, it is likely that UEFA will see the waving of the Palestinian Flag as a political act and to be fair, those waving it would no doubt accept that it is. UEFA rules state;
“The use of gestures, words, objects or any other means to transmit any message that is not fit for a sports event, particularly messages that are of a political, ideological, religious or provocative nature will not be tolerated.”
Last time (2013) we were fined and we had a Palestinian player in the squad for the game. Ourselves, Dundalk & St Johnstone were all fined because UEFA claimed waving a Palestinian flag was “political” due to the fact that there was ongoing trouble.
In my view the Politics in football grounds debate would last 5 minutes in a court. Barca’s away strip would be banned. International competition would be banned. Flying a Scotland flag during referendum campaign could be perceived as political. For goodness sake we are only playing an Israeli team (a team from the Middle East) for political reasons! Would having a Ukranian flag against a Russian team (or vice versa) illicit an offence? Would having a Turkish flag on show when playing a Greek Cypriot team be an offence? Of course it’s all nonsense.
Despite the nonsense of the UEFA position many ask will waving a flag at CP achieve anything bar a cost to the club? They have suggested that it would be better to spend the time and money going to the Israeli consulate and protesting outside their door. Others have commented that the political issues don’t really interest them and wonder why people think it’s okay to risk Celtic having a stand closed for persistent offending does. If a stand IS closed, will those waving the flag step forward and volunteer their ticket to ensure non-flag wavers see the game?
And that is the crux of this issue for many, including the club. UEFA rules are the UEFA rules. The rules may be a nonsense but if you want to play in their competitions you have to abide by their rules. The big fear the club have is that the accumulation of small events is getting very close to the point (like Bayern in 2014) when a section of the ground will be closed for a game under the totting up system.
In addition to illustrating the nonsense of UEFA rules, this flag issue also demonstrates the problem with strict liability. I have read on twitter “stuff the Champions League” and “some things are more important – it’s only money”. Such people therefore see the demonstration as worth the punishment – The entire population of Perth isn’t punished by 100 punters walking down the street creating trouble so why would the same number of people be penalised if 100 citizens exercise their democratic right to wave the Palestinian flag?
In the sterilised world of modern football, there are certain clubs praised for the passion and zeal of their fans and the atmosphere in their stadia. Celtic and the amphitheater of Celtic Park are one such club, but like Barca, Real Sociedad, Athletic Bilbao among others it is the strong political ethos established in the formation of the club that makes it different. Barca remained a huge club during the Franco era partly because within the crowds of Camp Nou Catalan culture could be retained and the Catalan language could be used. Crowds behind the Iron Curtain were large at football because there you could shout anti-government slogans and get away with it. In short, in many places and at many clubs, football and politics are intertwined.
Celtic are between rock and a hard place. There is not a Celtic game goes by without Palestinian flags being on display. They are neither illicit nor illegal in draconian Scottish football. They are an everyday part of Celtic games. Additionally Celtic have (and have always had) a sizeable number of politicised fans – it’s in the nature of the club’s formation.
But UEFA rules are UEFA rules and in the world of football there is NOTHING a club from a wee nation can do about them.
If Celtic make a big deal of saying NO! a chunk of our support will say “who are you to tell us…?” and that will arrive on Wednesday determined to wave Palestinian flags. Say nothing and flags will be flown and the club could face greater censure for not taking enough steps to prevent the political demonstration.
No matter what it seems certain the club will be fined. Whether this then leads to worse as a consequence of persistent offending we will only know once it’s too late.
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Post by barney21 on Aug 13, 2016 13:19:11 GMT
It,s surely a hellish world when we cannot as a support and more importantly as a club,show our support for a people that are having the worst of atrocities levelled at them and this from a people that have received succour/support after the same atrocities that were visited on them.The Zionists control everything in the west,they have the USA and us on our knees doing their bidding,there syrely has to be a way of showing our support that won,t endanger the club because they will at the behest of their"masters" hammer us.
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Post by prairiebhoy on Aug 13, 2016 18:46:58 GMT
If you think Obama is doing the bidding of Israel - you have not been paying attention to Obama these past 7.5 years
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Post by prairiebhoy on Aug 13, 2016 18:50:41 GMT
I don't care if some fly it. Lets face it, flying the tri-color is a political act too.
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Post by crusader85 on Aug 13, 2016 18:58:32 GMT
If you think Obama is doing the bidding of Israel - you have not been paying attention to Obama these past 7.5 years Yep. Obama and Netanyahu truly despise each other.
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Post by herfordbhoy on Aug 13, 2016 20:55:04 GMT
Keep the politics away from the club, its a football game, i have no political affiliations whatsoever and cant understand why some of our support continue to do so and get our great club into bother with uefa, by all means voice ur support but not politically, keep it you yourself.
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Post by barney21 on Aug 13, 2016 22:37:10 GMT
Crusader do bit of reading between the lines and you will find out more of what is really happening,Obama like all other leaders of the USA are controlled by the Zionists as are all the Europeans"I care nothing for the laws of a country,if I control the money I control them"or words to that effect quoted from Rothschild.The USA gives Israel 3trillion/year nuff said.
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Post by crusader85 on Aug 13, 2016 22:54:23 GMT
Barney21 the US approved the nuclear agreement with Iran over the objection of Israel. Bibi even spoke before Congress to try to convince the US to deep-six the deal. Didn't happen.
As far as support the US also gives large amounts of foreign aid to Muslim countries:
Egypt: $1.5 billion
Afghanistan: $1.1 billion
Jordan: $1.0 billion
pakistanistanistan (won't let me spell pakistan) gets 933 million
The figures speak for themselves.
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Post by barney21 on Aug 14, 2016 10:08:48 GMT
crusader 3trillion to 1 country? yes they passed the nuclear treaty with Iran superficially then refused to lift the sanctions,the main "string puller" is the Zionist Sheldon Adelson.The Zionists have a dis- proportionate sphere of influence in the west and in particular the USA,it is all channelled to the "Greater Israel" ethos.Ask yourself who other than the "military industrial complex"/Banking gains from the horrendous situation presently in the middle east? Israel benefits most.We have in this country a very large"friends of Israel" lobby why?you would think that there would be 1 for Palestine an oppressed/devastated people,why are the Israelis our friends?one of the very few mp,s to voice support for Palestine was the girl Cox now dead/murdered?
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Post by polly15 on Aug 14, 2016 15:18:17 GMT
Shite, celtic must stop these flags from entering the ground, keep them out and drown out any singing in favour of it through the tanoy, these muppets don't know or know very little about what they are protesting about, if you go to celtic park then go to support your team not embarrass the club or have fines imposed upon it, where are these people the rest of the time more than likely full of the buckie and not giving a second thought to Palestine or the people.
total load of crap this wanting to fly flags, seriously its fekin cringe worthy.
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Post by barney21 on Aug 14, 2016 17:05:30 GMT
Polly "evil triumphs when good folks do nothing" notice the nice wee bit of pc there,I know it is very difficult to get it right but it is UEFA that are at fault do they not adhere to "freedom of speech/thought" are we not democracies,only it would seem if you keep your mouth shut and do as they would have you do.I don,t know what action would be deemed acceptable but we as a support as a club should be making an effort.Maybe we could sponsor some Palestinian families,I don,t know.
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Post by crusader85 on Aug 14, 2016 17:16:28 GMT
barney, you're numbers are wrong on Israel. It's 3.1 billion, not 3.1 trillion.
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Post by handyman on Aug 14, 2016 18:28:50 GMT
Sorry Barney but bollocks to politics, it has no place at a football ground. If these political idiots want to fly flags and make protests theres a big large open space called George Square they can protest till the cows come home. Personnaly coulndt GAF about the politics of the middle east,Russia etc call me blinkered or whatever but i go to Parkhead to watch my football team play football not some fanny go against the clubs wishes and put the club into bother with the authorities. Football is where i go to excape the pish that goes on in life wish the political rebels anf fukheads would GTF and let me enjoy it.
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Post by barney21 on Aug 14, 2016 19:16:19 GMT
sorry crusader it is 3.1billion/year a lot oh moullah.Handyman you are well entitled to your opinion as others are theirs and no one more than myself appreciate football and everything Celtic in particular,I am of the opinion that you cannot divorce politics from any walk of life as it impacts on everything,I was very politically motivated for a long long time but these last 10years or so I have from my perspective anyway seen it for what it really is and that it is venal/corrupt right/left/centre but from a Christian/Catholic point what is happening to the Palestinians is abhorrent and there is no one to help these unfortunates.Say nothing do nothing and our problems will vanish,wish that was the case.
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Post by 68guns on Aug 14, 2016 20:48:42 GMT
I am in no doubt that the fabulous GB will embarrass our club on Wednesday night.Absolutely nothing to do with football and hope these idiots stay away or we could end up playing behind closed doors.Hope I am wrong.
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Post by crusader85 on Aug 14, 2016 21:37:12 GMT
I'd rather the match be about the football teams and not the politics. Both teams are fighting for the CL. There's so many other venues to voice opinions on these issues. It would be a shame if the only coverage of the legs involves politics, religion and flags.
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Post by fjb1888 on Aug 15, 2016 8:17:12 GMT
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Post by prairiebhoy on Aug 16, 2016 1:38:42 GMT
I am in no doubt that the fabulous GB will embarrass our club on Wednesday night.Absolutely nothing to do with football and hope these idiots stay away or we could end up playing behind closed doors.Hope I am wrong. Could happen. Wouldn't surprise me. There is a football team showing up at Celtic Park on Wednesday night to play the home side. Hope there are no flares and no boos of the opposition other than what would be reserved for any opponent. UEFA could throw the book at Celtic depending on the type of display. If that happens, Celtic may clear out those sections once and for all.
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Post by albhoy on Aug 16, 2016 20:37:26 GMT
From another view point, has anyone stopped and considered the risk and danger they could be exposing any travelling fans next week to by flying these flags. Just saying like.
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Post by 68guns on Aug 17, 2016 19:14:34 GMT
Didn't take long till the Palestinian flags appeared.Cheers GB,probably a big fine now or even worse.Wankers👎
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